| Senior lawyer VK Lingam’s brother, Thirunama Karasu, said he exposed the former’s alleged relationship with the country’s top judges because it was his duty to do so.
“ As a citizen, I have done my duty,” he told Malaysiakini during a two-hour interview last week.
Thirunama’s explosive allegations were listed in detail in his police report filed in March this year. The report was made public by lawyer Wee Choo Keong on Nov 18. 
Subsequently, all three individuals were summoned by the Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA) for questioning.
Following this, Lingam claimed that Thirunama was mentally unstable and was acting on a grudge in a bid to blackmail the former for money, a luxury car and a luxury house. “I did not lodge the report because of a grudge or money. I’m not dependent on them,” Thirunama told Malaysiakini.
The 50-year-old electrician also revealed that he was officially working for Lingam between January and June 1996. Lingam confirmed this during his brush with the press on Nov 21.
The transcript of the interview with Thirunama is the final of three parts. Malaysiakini has retained his manner of speech in the interest of authenticity and withheld the names of certain people implicated in his police report.
Malaysiakini: What happened between your last discharge from hospital? You made a sudden police report in March 2007. That is a big gap.
Thirunama: [...] In 1998, I worked. I didn’t take any medication. I did not go back to any psychiatric hospital. I did not see any doctors, until today, 2007. If I’m an advance depressed patient, I should go back (to the hospital) again and again. It is written that I have suicidal tendencies.
Was there any contact between you and the ACA after you were discharged?
No.
What make you decide to make a police report?
He (Lingam) has been threatening me, so many times, between 1996 and 1998. He has corrupted the judiciary. Innocent people are suffering. I’ve been reading in the news the innocent people are suffering.
Ordinary persons are frighten to go to the courts. Many people are saying that the judiciary is corrupted. I know the real picture.
In 2006, there were high-profile cases of corruption. Lately, there was an ACA director who was implicated for corruption [Corruption allegations against former ACA director-general Zulkipli Mat Noor was exposed in February this year, two weeks before Thirunama made his report], then there was the Kasidah Gaddam case. So many. And (finally) our new Prime Minister (Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) has publicly told that he is going all out to wipe out corruption. (All these issues) helped wiped out my fear to make a police report.
Did anyone ask you to make the police report?
No. Nobody.
In your police report, you mentioned that you went to Bukit Aman first. What happened there?
I want to Bukit Aman to see a senior officer and explained the corruption matter to her. There was another senior officer, the two of them were seated in a room with me, I explained the whole thing.
I told that I wanted to make a report (a long time ago) but I feared for my life. I told them I wanted to make a police report. One (of the senior officers) advised me to make a police report in any police station.
What made you seek advice in Bukit Aman?
I’ve been waiting for so many years to clean the judiciary. Innocent people are suffering. We need (to build confidence for) foreigners to invest in our country. As a citizen, I’ve done my duty.
You were at the ACA (last week). What kind of questions did they ask you?
It’s their investigation. I cannot tell you [...] ACA is taking the matter seriously [...]
(At this juncture, Wee interjects and concurs that Thirunama should not talk about his last visit to the ACA).
The police report was lodged in March this year. Why were you only called by the ACA after Wee publicised it?
Wee: The report was lodged with the police. Not the ACA.
So a separate report was lodged with the ACA?
Wee: No. He lodged a report on the March 16, then again on March 19 at the Brickfields police station. (But) nothing happened. Zero.
So, the reason behind the ACA’s sudden interest was because you held a press conference?
Wee: Yes. I held the press conference on a Sunday (last week), then on Monday, (the news) went to town. Straight away, (the ACA) called him (Thirunama) up.
Why did you approach Wee?
Thirunama: After seeing the video clip, his name was mentioned (in the clip). From that, I knew about him. I contacted him and from that he asked me to show him the police report.
Your brother is saying that you have a grudge against him.
I did not lodge the report because of a grudge or money. I’m not dependent on them.
Y our brother said you wanted money, a bungalow, a Mercedes-Benz...
No. I didn’t ask him (for anything). In fact, the ACA told me in 1998 itself, “If your brother gives you anything or money, please come (to us)”.
There was one time, I rang up the ACA and said that they bought me a car. I informed the ACA that I did not tell them to buy a car.
Who is “they”?
My brother Dato VK (photo). It’s a Mercedes. They wanted me to do the limo service. They asked me to keep quiet. This was in 1999.
What happened to the car?
I started driving the car. They promised they would pay (for the car in full). They (said) they would buy a new car for me, but they got me a second hand car.
They said, “We’ll buy you a few more cars and you can hire drivers and you do the business”. They did not pay for five months. (A bank) came to repossess the car.
He always make use of people. So if nothing comes up, he will keep quiet. If the ACA is looking for him, he would come and see me.
In your police report, you mentioned about a bag which you brought to the judge’s house. Tell us more about it.
My brother called me one day to his house (in 1996). When I reached there, I saw him in front of his house. Another person was present. Francis Kok Chee Khoon. He (Lingam) handed me a bag. He told me that the bag belongs to (name of a then High Court judge withheld).
He said, “This judge had accidently left it in the car”.
Which car?
Dato VK Lingam’s car (proceeds to give number plate, colour and make).
(Continuing from previous question) Mr Francis was showing me (hand signals). He told me to just keep quiet. He told me not to go anywhere (else) and straight away go to (the High Court judge’s house).
I went to (the judge’s) house and personally handed over the bag to him at his house at (proceeds to give out the judge’s Petaling Jaya address).
Did (the judge) say anything?
Yes. “Thank you”.
Tell us more about the allegation of your brother giving out mobile phones.
My brother gave me some handphone application forms from (a then well known mobile phone dealership) to give to (the High Court Judge), so that he could give to other judges to apply for a handphone provided by Dato VK Lingam.
Everyone would fill up the forms and submit back to VK’s office, then VK would instruct someone to go to the ground floor of the same building, to buy the phones.
Most of the phones are bought cash. It’s been given to so many judges. I didn’t deliver phones to anyone other than those implicated in my police report.
Were handphones given to others as well?
Yes. I saw a handphone in a blue box which was written (on the box) “IGP”. The telephone number (was written as well). I saw that in Dato VK’s office.
Handphones were pretty expensive then.
Yes. It was the Ericsson handphone. That time, many people were asking for a handphone.
What was the price of the handphone?
It was a thousand plus (ringgit). This phone was coming, if I’m not mistaken, from Sweden.
Have you seen the ‘Lingam Tape’?
Yes.
W hat was your reaction?
After I saw the video, I became more brave. Because I’ve been used by him to go to the judges’ houses.
Knowing your brother, do you think the tape was authentic?
Yes.
When did you first see the video clip?
I first saw it in my house. On the Internet. It was definitely my brother’s voice. He would repeat the word so many times “correct, correct, correct” [...]
You’ve been to his house? The tape might have been recorded in his house? Do you think its his house?
I haven’t been (in) his house. I don’t know what the interior looks like. I’ve only seen the outside of his house. After the house (renovation) was completed, I did not go there.
Basically, whenever you go to his house you don’t go in?
No. The last visit to his house was in 1996.
He wouldn’t allow you in?
No. He wouldn’t allow me in because of some (prior) misunderstanding.
What are you working as?
I’m a self-employed electrician.
You were Lingam’s employee, in what capacity?
I was working for him, officially, from January till June 1996. Salary was paid and EPF was deducted (from my monthly salary). I did all the errands for him to the judges' houses.
(Initially, when) he told me join his (legal) firm, he said I would be the equipment manager for his timber concession in South America, British Guyana. That is what he told me.
But he gave me a different job. He told me to go to the judges' houses, order office equipment, and all that.
You were basically running errands for him?
Yes. He knew I had a motorbike. It was easy for me to go to the judges’ houses. If you go by car, people will recognise. Most of the time we used the motorbike. Most of the time I go (at) night.
Your brother has told reporters that he has never talked to you since 1996 or 1997.
He mentioned that a fallout happened in 1997. This was not true. In 1998 (before the ACA questioned me) he came to my house. After you were discharged, did you talk to Lingam again?
No. He was very angry with me for giving the third statement and I was the only one who exposed the New Zealand trip (which Lingam allegedly had with then Chief Justice Eusoff Chin). I showed the (travel) manifest to (a prominent lawyer, in 1997). No one (else) knew.
Did you feel like it was a heavy burden, all this information which you had been carrying for years?
Yes. Definitely. I felt guilt (over) what they did to me and the corruption. They were (getting away) scot free. All these years they have been doing this. It’s daylight robbery.
You mentioned earlier (in the interview) that your brother showed you photographs of the New Zealand trip. How did that come about?
He wanted to frame (certain photographs). He was choosing which was the best. He really wanted to enlarge it and frame it up.
When he was choosing, was it done in the office, or in his house?
In his house.
You have a really good memory.
It’s all from memory. I did not jot it down. It was only in 1998, I was so-called, “Don’t have a memory” (laughs).
How are your family members coping?
Sometimes, I’m frightened (for their safety). I’m here (talking to you) and I don’t know (how they are).
Are they supportive?
No. They are frightened because I have implicated very prominent people. (Thirunama is married and has three children).
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